Timeline for Is there a way to figure out what the average number of moves would be if all games were played to completion?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
22 events
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| May 25, 2022 at 23:07 | comment | added | Ravi Fernando | How would you define the "logical number of moves" in the case of an agreed draw? For example, you can play out a drawn KR vs. KR position to completion by immediately trading rooks to reach a dead position, repeating three times, or shuffling pieces around for 50 moves. Which of these is the most "logical" to you? | |
| May 25, 2022 at 13:17 | comment | added | JosephDoggie | Could one not construct a scenario with an "almost" infinite number of moves, assuming neither gave up. I suppose there would be a large finite number where moves would be repeated, but in practice, it would never be reached. | |
| May 25, 2022 at 7:51 | comment | added | Zizy Archer | So, you would like to check database for average number of moves for just the games that were played by actual players to completion? Or do you want to also include those games where engine sees a forced checkmate in N from final position? Or even give the position in which players stopped playing to an engine and let it play itself until checkmate/draw? I believe these will all lead to different answers. Former two should keep number of moves somewhat manageable - say 50 instead of 40 on average. Last can give you astronomical number of moves. | |
| May 24, 2022 at 21:39 | answer | added | Michael | timeline score: 1 | |
| May 24, 2022 at 21:15 | comment | added | Robbie Goodwin | Can you explain what difference it might make if all games were played to completion? What other options do you see? | |
| May 24, 2022 at 20:58 | comment | added | Mobeus Zoom | Without this clarity, I would say the question should be closed. In any case, despite user21820's fairly valiant attempt, it seems hard to believe any reasonable answer is possible in case (b). There are just way too many variables, including psychology (by resignation point, the loser-to-be likely will not play his best in defending the position; but who knows? We hardly have data how humans play past resignation point). | |
| May 24, 2022 at 20:54 | comment | added | Mobeus Zoom | @comic4relief It's absolutely crucial to answer Shufflepants' question. Are you asking (a) consider the resignation point of human games, then calculate the game-theoretic distance to mate in those positions (i.e. the fewest moves within which the winning-eval side can theoretically force mate) - this is the way Hauke Redmann has taken the question (and also my first impression); or, (b) how long would the human games last if resignation were not an allowed part of the game and the two humans played their sides out to checkmate (as Brian Towers and user21820 have taken it in their answers). | |
| May 24, 2022 at 20:16 | comment | added | Shufflepants | Is this a purely game theoretic question asking about what happens in the case of optimal play? Or is this asking about actual real games played by human players who make mistakes? | |
| May 24, 2022 at 18:39 | comment | added | llama | It took seventy or more moves presumably with an engine playing both sides close-to-perfectly (or more precisely an endgame table). That doesn't mean the two players would have taken 70 moves to mate if they continued playing, the player in losing position would most likely make more suboptimal moves than the other player and shorten the mating process significantly. I mean, look at the marathon Carlsen/Nepo game (chess.com/analysis/game/pgn/5H2V3LF8r2), there were long stretches where it was a dead draw by the engine. Is the logical end of that game the first time that happens? | |
| S May 24, 2022 at 17:14 | history | edited | lodebari | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Clearer title (change "in a pure chess sense" to "if all games were played to completion")
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| S May 24, 2022 at 17:14 | history | suggested | Sophie Swett | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Clearer title (change "in a pure chess sense" to "if all games were played to completion")
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| May 24, 2022 at 17:03 | comment | added | Hauke Reddmann | @AakashM: Exactly. In the improbable case White wins the starting position, we could give the longest variant until mate, though, so a number would make sense. | |
| May 24, 2022 at 15:45 | comment | added | AakashM | So, should we ever solve chess, the "logical number of moves of which a game should consist" will be zero, right? :) | |
| May 24, 2022 at 15:04 | review | Suggested edits | |||
| S May 24, 2022 at 17:14 | |||||
| May 24, 2022 at 10:09 | answer | added | user21820 | timeline score: 6 | |
| May 24, 2022 at 8:38 | history | became hot network question | |||
| May 24, 2022 at 5:13 | answer | added | ferdy | timeline score: 3 | |
| May 24, 2022 at 1:36 | review | Close votes | |||
| May 24, 2022 at 8:37 | |||||
| May 23, 2022 at 23:05 | history | edited | Brian Towers♦ |
edited tags
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| May 23, 2022 at 23:05 | answer | added | Brian Towers♦ | timeline score: 17 | |
| S May 23, 2022 at 21:51 | review | First questions | |||
| May 23, 2022 at 22:30 | |||||
| S May 23, 2022 at 21:51 | history | asked | comic4relief | CC BY-SA 4.0 |