# Questions tagged [threefold-repetition]

For questions about the threefold repetition rule, which states a player can claim a draw if it's his/her move and a position has appeared / is about to appear which happened before at least twice.

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### Threefold repetition: what's the minimum number of pieces and/or material points required?

I found the following position online where White's best course is to force a threefold repetition with the sequence Qg5-Kh8-Qf6-Kg8 because all other moves lose: This example uses 11 pieces and 29 ...
1 vote
210 views

### Are positions with different physical pieces on two squares but same kind and same color, considered the same?

like for example : k4r2/1n3p1p/6p1/8/PP1Q1Q2/3B3P/8/7K w - - 0 1 [FEN "k4r2/1n3p1p/6p1/8/PP1Q1Q2/3B3P/8/7K w - - 0 1"] 1. Qfe4 Rh8 2.Qf4 Rf8 3. Qfe3 Rh8 4. Qdf4 Rg8 5. Qed4 Rf8 without ...
82 views

### chess.com dosn't apply fide rule?

I was talking about the draw set, in FIDE 9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, if: 9.3.2 the last 50 moves by each player have been completed without the movement ...
762 views

### What is the longest possible sequence of double checks?

The record for the most mutual checks in a legal position is known. But what is the record for double checks? There is one rule: threefold repetition applies. Four categories exist; promoted pieces ...
1 vote
31 views

### The rule of draw if the same position repeats itself 3 times [duplicate]

Sometimes I hear that after losing the right for castling all position are different from the ones that before losing it. I don't think so. Like you can move the rook back and forth and losing the ...
54 views

### Estimate the max length of chess game under WFCC?

The World Federation of Chess Composition (WFCC) has a Codex that specifies how the FIDE Laws apply to chess problems. Can you give a ballpark estimate of the length of the longest game possible under ...
173 views

### How is this a “draw by three-fold repetition”?

How is this a draw by three-fold repetition? Following my last move, the app notified me of a draw by three-fold repetition. [FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"] ...
828 views

### Threefold repetition in view of castling rights

In view of castling rights, an aspiring rules lawyer could ask: when does threefold repetition support a draw claim? Technical example: [fen ""] [title "Illustration of castling rights&...
804 views

### If repetition loses, who wins KvK?

Suppose we're playing a version of chess where you lose if you repeat once an earlier position (position = arrangement of pieces + who's move it is). We're down to the wire, and we've just arrived at ...
1k views

### What's the rationale behind chess engines conditionally allowing threefold repetitions when assigning a draw score?

When a chess engine sees a position p repeated once (i.e. position p occurred twice) it immediately assigns the second occurrence of position p a draw score. This makes sense because position p doesn'...
8k views

### Why did this legendary game of Carlsen vs Nakamura not trigger threefold-repetition after move 5?

As far as I can tell, the position is the same after move 1, after move 3, and after move 5, so why does the game last until move 6 is done? Did it not get claimed as a draw by either player? [fen &...
2k views

### Is there a record for threefold repetition for when the claimed positions are the farthest apart, in terms of moves?

That’s one long question, so let’s break it down. Threefold repetition, as many know, is when a draw occurs, after the same position, with all piece types on the same square, all possible moves and ...
224 views

### Which legal position has the smallest number of moves in a "forced loop"?

Consider this (illegal) position. [FEN "5n1k/3p1p1p/3PpPpP/4P1P1/1p1p4/pPpPp3/P1P1P3/K1N5 w - - 0 1"] If we do not consider the position's illegality, and the fact that it is clearly ...
1 vote
1k views

### Meaning of the phrase "the same player has the move"

What is the meaning of the phrase "the same player has the move" in the sentence below "Two positions are by definition "the same" if the same types of pieces occupy the same ...
327 views

### A New Year's Math Riddle

Here's a fun and clean riddle for the New Year! I found the material for it on Krabbe's site. I will provide the link when it is solved. How many times can this position be repeated, with both sides ...
670 views

### Why don't engines show explicitly that a certain move takes to a threefold repetition (instead of just showing 0.00)?

I get that from the point of view of the engine there's no difference; equal is equal. But for a human analyzing with an engine, I find quite important to note that a move takes to a balanced position ...
853 views

### What is the need for repetition rules given the 50 & 75 move rules?

Given the existence of the (optional) 50-move rule and the (mandatory) 75-move rule, are the (optional) threefold-repetition rule and the (mandatory) fivefold-repetition strictly necessary? Do the ...
1k views

### Rules: Is this position a draw?

Is this position a draw? [FEN ""] 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. Ng1 Ng8 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Ng1 Ng8 I don't mean to ask the age-old question "Is chess a draw?"; four moves have been played here, returning to the starting ...
2k views

### Rules: How does right to castle and en passant get considered for the purpose of calculating a threefold repetition?

I'm writing a chess app, and have some questions regarding the intricacies of the threefold repetition rules. As of 2018, the FIDE handbook has this to say about what constitutes identical positions ...
8k views

### Why do GMs repeat moves instead of offering a draw?

Watching recaps of the 2021 Candidates Tournaments, so many games end in consecutive repeating moves. I have a general impression that lots of top level games are drawn by repeating moves. Why do the ...
1 vote
868 views

### EXTENDED New Year's Math Riddle: 5-fold repetition & 75-move rules

This puzzle extends Rewan Demontay's New Year Math Riddle. Rewan asked (essentially): if the players co-operate, what's the largest number of times a given diagram can occur in a game before reaching ...
751 views

### Can you claim a draw, after the position has changed, if threefold repetition occurred earlier?

I understand that when the same board position occurs three times in a game, with the same player to move, and having all the same possible moves, the game may be claimed as a draw by threefold ...
12k views

### Why isn't this threefold repetition, forcing a draw?

Here's my scenario, White has pawns on c2 and a2, and a king on c1, while Black has a queen on b4 and a king on d1. [FEN "4k3/8/8/8/1q6/8/P1P5/2K5 b - - 0 1 "] 1...Qe1+ 2.Kb2 Qb4+ 3.Ka1 Qe1+ 4.Kb2 ...
967 views

### What is the order of actions in chess under FIDE rules?

Reading some recent posts about the 50 move rule made me realize that I've never seen an explicit order of actions for chess. By way of comparison, the order of actions in Monopoly is given here: (1) ...
869 views

### FIDE threefold repetition and possible moves

FIDE rules section 9.2 says: Positions are considered the same if and only if the same player has the move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares and the possible moves of all ...
94 views

### Is there a position where it's possible to claim a draw by both the 50 moves and threefold repetition rules?

It doesn't matter which one the player chooses in that situation, but I'm wondering whether someone can come up with a game where this holds true for at least one move.
2k views

### How long can a player hold off a draw by the 50-move rule?

Going by rules strictly about the board state, how long can a player theoretically hold off a draw by the 50-move rule? White will play as long as possible, and not want to lose. Black will claim a ...
281 views

### When is it considered a win vs a draw?

I am playing with black and have just called check on the white king. It is now the white players turn, no matter what move the white king makes it will lead to check. Does this mean black has won or ...
473 views

### How can I find games from grandmasters that end in threefold repetition?

When I go to http://www.chessgames.com/, I can search for matches that end in draws. However, I can not figure out how to filter those draws to specifically threefold repetition. How can I find these ...
993 views

### Does threefold repetition apply in a rapid game?

I had a winning position in a 10+5 OTB game, but I was low on time. I repeated position to gain some time. My opponent stopped the clock and claimed a draw. The arbiter was called, ans ww agreed that ...
2k views

### Can a threefold repetition be claimed in a blitz game? If so, how?

Can one claim a draw by threefold repetition in a blitz game when no score of the game is being kept? If so, how? Once, in a blitz game, my opponent was simply trying to run me out of time. At a ...
949 views

### How do UCI chess engines handle the 50-move or threefold repetition rules when playing against other engines?

I'm working on an engine that implements the UCI protocol that is intended to play against other engines. Since the UCI protocol has no commands for offering or accepting draws, how does this work ...
1k views

### Does permanent loss of castling rights reset three fold repetition?

Threefold repetition requires that the same "potential for moves". For example, if an en passant move could be played in one position but not another, it does not count as the same position. With ...
217 views

### In Bughouse can you claim a draw if the position on the board repeated three times but the pieces available to place were different?

In Bughouse chess can you make a triple occurrence draw claim if the position on the board has been repeated three times but the pieces available to the players to place were different each time?
679 views

### What's the maximum number of moves that can result in a threefold repetition from an arbitrary position?

Assume that the fifty-move rule does not require a player to claim a draw. Instead, the game is automatically declared a draw if no pawns have been moved and no pieces have been captured in the last ...
852 views

### Three-fold repetition and null move

Added transposition table (this was tested alone and worked as expected), three fold repetition and null move pruning in my engine and wins more games but some of them end with three fold repetition ...
5k views

### Programming three-fold repetition for my chess engine

I'm making a chess engine that has to implement a three-fold repetition as my AI vs AI engine repeats the same moves over and over again (Have a look at my post here - My chess AI makes the same ...
326 views

### Making an inferior move to get out of threefold repetition?

Let's say it's the last day of a tournament and white needs to win a game in order to advance to the next stage or something like that. Unfortunately, he reaches a position where there is no way to ...
590 views

### Does threefold repetition take into account the side to move?

To be more clear, here is a fragment of a game: [FEN "4k3/R7/6r1/3KP3/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1"] 1. Ra2 Rg5 2. Ra7 Rg6 3. Ra2 Rg5 4. Ra7 Rg6 5. Ra4 Rg5 6. Ra2 From the FIDE Laws of Chess: 5.5.1 d. ...
620 views

### What if threefold repetition occurs in WCC 2018?

It is not allowed to draw till move 30. Are the players forced to find another moves in case of threefold repetition?
516 views

### 50-move rule: FIDE wording seems weird

FIDE rules seem to say that I have to claim draw (3-repetition and 50-move) before I actually touch/move my piece. And if I move my piece first, and then claim the draw, it doesn't count. 1) Is this ...
263 views

### How did this game end in a draw?

https://en.lichess.org/B6L5XNox Never mind the sloppy play. I'm just curious why this ended in a draw: (Does anyone know how to copy moves from lichess?) Anyway, the final 5 moves: Rc4+ Kb6 Qd8+ ...
361 views

### Najdorf threefold repition

In the Sicilian Najdorf there is a well known line which ends in threefold repition (if both players want). [Event "NN"] [ECO "B90"] [Opening "Sicilian Defense: Najdorf Variation, English Attack, ...