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Is there a position where w.l.o.g. white is to move, it has a mate in three, and no matter what black does, white's two first moves must be quiet (i.e., without check or capture) in order not to delay the checkmate?

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Three? I'm just too lazy to send you half of the SCHWALBE #3 originals! I bet the score can be pushed far higher.

Romeo Bedoni, Andre Cheron, Journal de Geneve 28/06/1975, #57

[Title "White to move"]
[FEN "7n/ppp2p2/2N2Pp1/6B1/8/8/p1p2PKp/rbNk1rbR w - - 0 1"]

Note that the first capturing move pair Kxf1 bxc6 was added only later to increase the move numbers. Simply drop it again to have a #56 fulfilling your needs. Also note a big defect: it doesn't matter in which order you play the tempo-losing K-f3-g3-g2.

Solution

A "cleaner" example: Mate in 18.

Pierre-Antoine Cathignol, diagrammes 1987-1988, 2. Preis

[Title "White to move"]
[FEN "8/8/8/2b3p1/5pPk/4pPp1/2N1PpP1/5K2 w - - 0 1"]

Solution

A study by Shinkman 1905, 97 moves until mate, unfortunately the pawn structure is illegal:

[Title "White to move"]
[FEN "bn2B3/rn2Bp1p/p6p/k2N1p2/7p/2bp1p2/5P2/3K3N w - - 0 1"]

A study by F. Lindgren 1917, 24 moves:

[Title "White to move"]
[FEN "8/8/5N2/8/3p1K1k/3N4/8/8 w - - 0 1"]

Solution to the studies and THX to all contributors from MatPlus (same thread).

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  • Oh, it is not as complicated as I thought it would be! Do you think it would be tricky if we only allowed mate-in-three positions where all non-"quiet" non-checkmate white moves make white lose the win? Anyway, great answer! Thank you!
    – FxMySz
    Commented Oct 13 at 17:25
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    This then would be an unexpected-mate-study. I know tons of them too (and just would have to check that they don't check - sorry :-) - or capture.).
    – Hauke Reddmann
    Commented Oct 13 at 17:34
  • Without the pawn White has a checkless mate in 7. Is there a mate in 7 or less that incudes a check?
    – bof
    Commented Oct 13 at 19:33
  • at everyone: since there is considerable interest, I take it to the experts at MatPlus. I'll edit my answer accordingly.
    – Hauke Reddmann
    Commented Oct 14 at 7:46
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Hauke has already shown the longest mates, let me try those with the least pieces.

This is the longest mate (all single and silent moves, except the mating move) which I have found for KQ vs K:

[Title ""]
[Fen "8/1K6/8/4k3/8/5Q2/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
[StartFlipped "0"]

1.Kc6 Kd4 2.Qe2 Kc3 3.Kc5 Kb3 4.Qd2 Ka3 5.Kc4 Ka4 6.Qa2# ( 6.Qb4# )

(Update: This is also a mate in 6.)

And this is the longest for KR vs K:

[Title ""]
[Fen "8/8/8/8/8/7k/R7/6K1 w - - 0 1"]

1.Rg2 Kh4 2.Kh2 Kh5 3.Kh3 Kh6 4.Kh4 Kh7 5.Kh5 Kh8 6.Kg6 Kg8
7.Rf2 Kh8 Rf8#
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  • Thanks for this research. Are they unique (except for symmetry)? Or are other different KQvK or KRvK positions with the same sequence lengths?
    – FxMySz
    Commented Oct 17 at 23:04
  • @FxMySz I did not do it using a script, but manually, so it is possible that there are other possibilities with same or greater length.
    – Nils Lindemann
    Commented Oct 18 at 9:13
  • Oh, I see. Nice.
    – FxMySz
    Commented Oct 18 at 9:18
  • @FxMySz Found another mate in 6 in KQ vs K. But that one is just bringing the king closer.
    – Nils Lindemann
    Commented Oct 18 at 14:17

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