# If repetition loses, who wins KvK?

Suppose we're playing a version of chess where you lose if you repeat an earlier position (position = arrangement of pieces + who's move it is). We're down to the wire, and we've just arrived at the position after the 30th capture, with only the two kings left on the board. With best play, who wins?

I think the question originated with the British go player Matthew Macfadyen 6-dan, but was solved by John Rickard. Avoiding loops is a thing in go however the puzzle here requires zero knowledge of that game.

As far as I know the solution has never been published. So here we chess.stackexchange: good luck!

EDIT: With just the two kings, stalemate cannot happen. Assume there is no 50-move Rule & no Dead Position Rule. This problem does not concern these rules. And in any case, in compositions these rules are applicable by default only to retro problems, which this is not.

• Deeming stalemate a loss entails identifying which player stalemated the other. So perhaps you'd consider it reasonable, when the position is dead, to identify the player who played from an alive position to a dead one. What the result would be depends on how you define your variant. Or perhaps your variant doesn't have the same notion of "dead position" as chess, and the position is dead only at KvK? Jun 28, 2021 at 7:23
• In KRvKN, in chess, capture of the R, or a R check which forces black to take the R, kills the position because mate is now impossible. But perhaps, in your variant, play must go on because the result is not yet settled? Depends on how you score it. Jun 28, 2021 at 7:24
• @Steve Bennett. The solution should specify what makes a position winning, and how to win from there Jun 29, 2021 at 3:11
• You're looking for the complete strategy to win this game no matter the starting position of the two kings? That seems broad. Jun 29, 2021 at 3:27
• I tried it on 3x3 board, the first mover wins in all possible lines. In 4x4 board, I haven't tried all possible lines but the first mover seems to have the advantage. If we were able to generalize this to 8x8 board, I would say the color who has the first move wins. But of course this is neither a complete nor a proved correct answer. This problem might be brute-forced by a computer easily if you implement the rules. Aug 12, 2021 at 8:35